Group C was better than Group B

"YSI-what can brown do for you" (ysi-what-can-brown-do-for-you) 04/27/2014 at 12:01 • Filed to: Rants, Exhaust Music, Group C, Group B

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I am not sure how unpopular of an opinion it is, but Group B seems to be the more popular of the two around these parts. But I have always though Group C was just more badass. I guess I am going to rant real quick like.

The cars were more powerful. A lot more powerful. Like this Nissan RC90 that makes over 1000hp. That wasn't just in qualifying either. Most of the cars were above the 700hp, while others were close to 800+! It was all based on how much fuel thought thought the engine was going to use.

There was variety as well. You could make an engine with as many or as few cylinders you wanted, you could make as big as you wanted, and you could add FI if you so felt the need. You had 7L V12, 3.5L V10s, turbocharged 4 cylinders and flat 6s, big V8s or small V8s, and even a very popular rotary. There was nearly everything for everyone

Plus the cars look like spaceships. They look good to everyone. Group B cars look good to enthusiasts, everyone else just thinks they are horrible monstrosities. Not to mention all the teams in Group C. There was Ford, Jaguar, Dome, Mazda, Toyota, Nissan, Porsche, Lamborghini, Mclaren, Peugeot, and a lot more!

I think one reason why Group B is remembered more fondly was that it was ended a bit early. While Group C lasted for more than a decade, where Group B was around for only 4 years. Plus by the end, the FIA made it so you had to basically use F1 engines. So the class was spending F1 money without the money that F1 gets.

I decided to add some videos to spice up my not so great writing!

Mark - Sixpots None The Richer > YSI-what can brown do for you 04/27/2014 at 12:09

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Everything you wrote is right and I won't disagree.

I'd just say that Group C was missing two ingredients to be "better" than Group B.

Drifting on dirt and the mad audience just a few meters away from those barely controlled cars...

YSI-what can brown do for you > Mark - Sixpots None The Richer 04/27/2014 at 12:11

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I hated the audience being so close to the course. It was one of the reasons why Group B was ended so quickly! The drifting on dirt though, that is awesome!

Bad Idea Hat > YSI-what can brown do for you 04/27/2014 at 12:11

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Fuck you, Bernie

(actually FIA. Conspiracy theories suggest Group C was intentionally murdered to protect F1)

YSI-what can brown do for you > Bad Idea Hat 04/27/2014 at 12:15

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I have heard similar things. I wouldn't be surprised either.

Mark - Sixpots None The Richer > YSI-what can brown do for you 04/27/2014 at 12:21

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Oh, absolutely! It was definitely stupid and had to be ended.

But I have always though Group C was just more badass.

Nonetheless, I'm afraid this is what people glorify now, making Group B the most badass. ;-)

This has nothing to do with the engineering behind it or the quality of the races.

Blondude > YSI-what can brown do for you 04/27/2014 at 12:22

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When it comes to rallying, Group B > everything else.

When it comes to prototypes, Group C > everything else.

SnowBallin > YSI-what can brown do for you 04/27/2014 at 12:23

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It always annoys me that P1 cars of today have less power than their predecessors. Group C was the pinnacle of enduro racing. Imagine a Group C engine in a modern P1 car (with their impressive aero packages). It would be epic

Forgetful > Blondude 04/27/2014 at 12:29

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I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of my unlimited displacement Formula Libre.

Can-Am/Group 7 FTW.

Blondude > Forgetful 04/27/2014 at 12:39

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I knew that was gonna backfire on me...

Forgetful > Blondude 04/27/2014 at 12:40

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You were close though

YSI-what can brown do for you > Forgetful 04/27/2014 at 12:42

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Can am was pretty badass, and the cars were very powerful, but besides the Porsches and their twin turbo flat 12s, most of the cars were powered by V8s. Most of those V8s were Chevy small/big blocks. Needed a bit more variation!

YSI-what can brown do for you > Blondude 04/27/2014 at 12:43

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I can get behind this.

YSI-what can brown do for you > SnowBallin 04/27/2014 at 12:44

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There is the TS040. 1000hp and epic aero

YSI-what can brown do for you > Mark - Sixpots None The Richer 04/27/2014 at 12:58

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That's true I guess. But it is racing! The quality of the racing should define how badass it was!

Burrito de EJ25 > YSI-what can brown do for you 04/27/2014 at 13:02

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I think the 787B is the best sounding motor vehicle ever created.

Forgetful > YSI-what can brown do for you 04/27/2014 at 13:15

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Suck it.

YSI-what can brown do for you > Forgetful 04/27/2014 at 13:17

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Ehhhhhhhhhh I see what you did.

Forgetful > YSI-what can brown do for you 04/27/2014 at 13:22

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You could say that having the Chevy available as a competitive power plant lead to a lot of variation in the cars since it gave smaller teams a chance, like Canadian outfit Chinook, which might be one of the prettiest race cars of all time.

Stang70Fastback > YSI-what can brown do for you 04/27/2014 at 16:08

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This is really pissing me off. That lead picture sparked a faint memory of a toy I had as a kid that I'm now realizing was probably a Group C car, but I can't remember if it was a Hot Wheels car or a small R/C car or what, but I can kind of remember playing with it all the time and I want to say it was one of my favorite toys.

DAMMIT. MUST KNOW MORE.

Somethingwittyer likes noisy > YSI-what can brown do for you 04/27/2014 at 16:11

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Whatever you think, I think we can all agree the 80s were the best time for Motorsport.

YSI-what can brown do for you > Somethingwittyer likes noisy 04/27/2014 at 16:12

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True story. F1, endurance racing, and rally were all doing crazy things!!!

Somethingwittyer likes noisy > Bad Idea Hat 04/27/2014 at 16:12

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The entire 3.5 L formula was stupid. No one liked it.

alan666 > YSI-what can brown do for you 04/27/2014 at 16:21

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I think more people know about Group B or have heard of it because of the people killed by the cars & it is often referenced on car programs especially when they talk about Lancia.

alan666 > YSI-what can brown do for you 04/27/2014 at 16:27

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You never posted the most iconic group c video !

Alex from Toronto > YSI-what can brown do for you 04/27/2014 at 16:28

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V10's tho

Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) > YSI-what can brown do for you 04/27/2014 at 16:30

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I know it sounds daft, but really: Group C was the Group B of sports car racing.

YSI-what can brown do for you > alan666 04/27/2014 at 16:34

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Speaking of which did Lancia only won one championship during the Group B era. Right?

YSI-what can brown do for you > alan666 04/27/2014 at 16:35

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I remember watching this the first time thinking that Bell was going really fast, and then I saw Ickx and I was speechless.

TommyRocker > Forgetful 04/27/2014 at 16:37

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That's very nice. I still think the Chaparral 2D variants were the prettiest, though.

YSI-what can brown do for you > Alex from Toronto 04/27/2014 at 16:37

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Enjoy. Pretty much 7 minutes of V10s

Just wear your damn mask... > YSI-what can brown do for you 04/27/2014 at 16:38

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Apples and oranges. They are both great, but one has nothing to do with the other and they aren't mutually exclusive.

Alex from Toronto > YSI-what can brown do for you 04/27/2014 at 16:40

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YSI-what can brown do for you > Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) 04/27/2014 at 16:41

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Wait wait, slow this down for me real quick like. What you are telling me is, the top classes of a certain sport is kind of like a top class of a different sport?

Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) > YSI-what can brown do for you 04/27/2014 at 16:41

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Pay attention this year, because the regulations imposed on LMP1 for 2014 are not unlike of Group C. Also, Porsche.

472CID > YSI-what can brown do for you 04/27/2014 at 16:41

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You know what's really weird? I like Group A more than both of them

Discard your multi-million dollar prototypes and acquire GTVs, E30s, R32s, XJSs, Commodores, etc

jtso > YSI-what can brown do for you 04/27/2014 at 16:42

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With regards to B vs C, it really depends if the person being asked is more a rally fan or a sports car fan.

I know Group B isn't just for rallying, but that's where it was most applied.

YSI-what can brown do for you > Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) 04/27/2014 at 16:42

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Yup yup!! It is going to be a very exciting year for endurance car racing! Particularly because of Toyota and their 1000hp monster!

Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) > YSI-what can brown do for you 04/27/2014 at 16:43

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Exactly. Was trying to make a point that the title is somewhat... hmmmm... confusing in the sense that both were top categories, but still pears and apples.

YSI-what can brown do for you > 472CID 04/27/2014 at 16:45

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I guess it was nice to see cars you can buy in the showroom being raced! You could then dream that you were a race car driver.

YSI-what can brown do for you > Burrito de EJ25 04/27/2014 at 16:46

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Anything with a 4 rotor really. Like this IMSA RX-7.

jtso > Bad Idea Hat 04/27/2014 at 16:46

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Hard not to call it a conspiracy when the rule change coincides with an increase in engine suppliers to F1.

Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) > YSI-what can brown do for you 04/27/2014 at 16:47

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Summing up Group C in a short clip (from 3:39):

YSI-what can brown do for you > Just wear your damn mask... 04/27/2014 at 16:47

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True, but is always fun to compare stuff. Like which would win. Superman or Walker, Texas Ranger

Max 2000 > Forgetful 04/27/2014 at 16:48

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SUCK IT DOWN

YSI-what can brown do for you > Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) 04/27/2014 at 16:50

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I guess so, but I am assuming that people know what both Group B and C are. It is a more a favorite things. This is more opinionated than an actual fact post. I just tend to find the cars and the racing of Group C more interesting because of the stuff I stated above.

zephyr0 > YSI-what can brown do for you 04/27/2014 at 16:51

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kinda hard to be multiple time champs of a series that only lasted 4 years

myTotaledTahoe > YSI-what can brown do for you 04/27/2014 at 16:51

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Not only is it not "better", it's not even comparable. Group B was Group C on dirt, and dirt makes everything cooler.

Also Can-Am > Group C

YSI-what can brown do for you > Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) 04/27/2014 at 16:53

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Pretty much sums up things very well. We have very few cars in the LMP1 class. But there 50+ ridiculously powerful cars in one race!

YSI-what can brown do for you > zephyr0 04/27/2014 at 16:55

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True true, but I think it was with their 037 that they won, and that was only because the Audi had mechanical troubles on the last race. Lancia is so closely associated with Group B you think they would have be incredible dominant. They were leading with their S4 a few times, but those were either blowing up or driving off cliffs.

zephyr0 > jtso 04/27/2014 at 16:56

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group B was never applied to sports cars because only ferrari and porsche were willing to make cars for it. the 288 gto and 959 respectively, only the 959 eventually rallied

Eric Sean Delaney > YSI-what can brown do for you 04/27/2014 at 17:03

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The Delta S4's 4 cylinder could reach up to 1000Hp if needed (which it never was) and it only weighed 1900lbs.

Just remember this car is made to race on dirt. And ice.

I love Group C too, but the cars that raced Group B are in a different league. A league of 600HP cars going sideways and causing the drivers to get tunnel vision. While they jumped and raced in-between trees. On dirt. And ice.

YSI-what can brown do for you > Eric Sean Delaney 04/27/2014 at 17:10

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I always liked the Delta S4 engine. I liked the head design, it was very very clever and looked very complicated to make.

1900lbs is about par for course for the Group C cars! I do however feel that the Group B cars, there was a lot left at the table. With less power todays rally cars are faster than these monsters! While the Porsche 956 still holds the fastest lap time at the Nurburgring even with less power than today's hypercars.

Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) > YSI-what can brown do for you 04/27/2014 at 17:13

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Same thing can go to Group B: there were RMR RWD turbocharged cars, FMR AWD turbo cars, RMR V6 N/A cars, RMR c-cyl twin-charged cars, etc. etc.

Take that and imagine they fly through dirt, ice, the savannah, tight mountain passes, etc.

It's really a matter of preference. I just had a problem with "better".

desertdog5051 > YSI-what can brown do for you 04/27/2014 at 17:21

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Absolutely agree. You ain't getting too much flak on this post. My favorite?

YSI-what can brown do for you > Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) 04/27/2014 at 17:28

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I never thought about chassis differences and what wheels the power goes to. It always stuck in my mind that after Audi showed that AWD was the way to go for rally, most companies went that way. Like the S4, Rs200, and the Metro 6R4. They did make some cool things. I do however have to talk about the Metro 6R4. It sounded glorious!

But this is obviously my opinion! Hopefully most people realize this and don't take it to seriously.

Darren McLellan > Eric Sean Delaney 04/27/2014 at 17:33

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B Was complete batshit insane one time over set segments
C Was not quite bat shit insane over and over and over again.

Equally Insane
Equally Awesome

YSI-what can brown do for you > desertdog5051 04/27/2014 at 17:37

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Yeah, I am amazed as well. I was expecting people to be coming in here guns blazing!

The Mazda 787B is always a good choice, but there is no beating a big 12 cylinder!

Brian Silvestro > YSI-what can brown do for you 04/27/2014 at 17:37

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You got silvestro'd .

xcheck44 > Forgetful 04/27/2014 at 17:41

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EXACTLY!!! Nothing is better than Can/Am from the mid/late 1960s thru 1974.

Mikeado > YSI-what can brown do for you 04/27/2014 at 17:43

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Group C cars are probably my favourite non-F1 racing cars of all. They usually turn up at Goodwood and when they do, you NEED to be trackside. The Mazda 787B was certainly an experience!!

That said, I also like modern LMP1 cars. Granted they're not as sexy or hardcore, but gliding silently down the pits and then bursting into life with as much as 1000 horsepower? I'm cool with that. :D

xcheck44 > YSI-what can brown do for you 04/27/2014 at 17:43

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The original McLaren cars used Oldsmobile V8 engines. There were also a few Ferrari engines, as well as other Euro-based powerplants.

YSI-what can brown do for you > Brian Silvestro 04/27/2014 at 17:45

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Haha, I did didn't I. So far, things seem okay. Only a few people seem to think that my opinion was offensive towards them, and their family.

Brian Silvestro > YSI-what can brown do for you 04/27/2014 at 17:49

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Then you're having the exact opposite experience as I am!

DeuxCentCinqTurboSeize > YSI-what can brown do for you 04/27/2014 at 17:50

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Both of these groups of racing were pushing automotive tech to new heights, with ground breaking aero, suspension set-ups and glorious engines, but I believe Group B was just that little bit more special and here's why. Rally racing has always been about covering ground as fast as possible on real roads. Seeing those cars struggle for grip as they fly through city streets, up mountain passes or across the desert always has me on the edge of my seat in a way circuit racing doesn't.

desertdog5051 > YSI-what can brown do for you 04/27/2014 at 17:55

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Agree, a contrast in power and sound. Both exceptional.

Autolegend86 > YSI-what can brown do for you 04/27/2014 at 18:04

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Your analysis makes absolutely no sense. If compared to airplanes, it's like saying a Zivko Edge 540 is better than an F22 or Boeing 777. They are totally different vehicles meant for totally different purposes.

1. No one says B is better than C or vise versa. If you do, you don't know enough the FIA Appendix J sporting codes.

2. When Group B was drawn up, it was made as a sports car formula to replace FIA Group 4 and 5. It was when the manufactures wanted a stage to show off their tech that B was chosen instead of A as the top class of rallying from 1982.

3. Group B is often misunderstood about it's length of existence. It did not die in 1986. Group B had multiple classes within itself from 1300cc and it was the 2000cc+ classes that were banned. Skoda's 130LR raced until the end of the 1988 season.

Besides rally, Group B was used at Le Mans, and the cars that raced in the French Super Tourisme of the late 80's were essentially Group B Touring cars.

Next. Group C is not one formula. Group C of 1982 and Group C of 1991 were two totally separate formulas with two totally different principles.

Originally, Group C replaced Group 6 to become a fuel efficiency formula. The Renault A442 and Porsche 936 turbo's had shown that light displacement with limitless fuel could produce tremendous horsepower. For the 80's the FIA was determined to make fuel consumption a concern for the brands by limiting the fuel allowance depending on the length of the event.

So in essence, while Group B was an anything goes silhouette formula that had yet to be exposed, Group C was F1 2014 and all its fuel management.

After electronic fuel injection systems became more advanced, the teams could adjust fuel flow to finish races without the same concern for fuel allowance.

1991 regulations changed the sport and had more to do with Bernie Eccelstone's influence in bringing in the F1 derived power plants. The arms race between Jaguar, Peugeot, and Mercedes Benz produced the most advanced sports race cars but it also killed the sport.

To finish, by picking off your points i hope you see that both had totally different things to offer and saying otherwise means you need more homework.


- "The cars were more powerful"

Why would a rally car need 1000hp? The modern WRC cars have 300hp and are faster over the length of a stage than an older group B due to far superior tire, suspension, differential, and electronics. Plus, hp is a misunderstood measurement. Modern rally cars make over 200hp at idle and have a flat torque curve. That is much more important around a tight special stage. I could just bring a 2500 hp pro mod dragster around Finland's Ouninpohja and it wouldn't go around a corner. Or i could bring a 60HP SAAB 93 two stroke and run rings around much more powerful equipment.

-" There was variety as well. You could make an engine with as many or as few cylinders you wanted, you could make as big as you wanted, and you could add FI if you so felt the need."

Mazda RX7 had a Rotary, Lancia S4 was dual charged with both a Turbo and a Supercharger. Engines from Skoda's NA 1300cc 4 cyl to MG's 6R4 Group C derived engine. Why wasn't there a Jaguar V12? Same reason Jaguar stopped racing the V12 in the world championship. It was a brick and Tony Southgate had to design the XJR9 around the V12 instead of the other way around like any normal (correct) race car.

- "Plus the cars look like spaceships. They look good to everyone. Group B cars look good to enthusiasts, everyone else just thinks they are horrible monstrosities. Not to mention all the teams in Group C. There was Ford, Jaguar, Dome, Mazda, Toyota, Nissan, Porsche, Lamborghini, Mclaren, Peugeot, and a lot more!"

While looks are subjective, the use of spaceships to me seems like interpreting something as alien. A Group C car had similar lines as the long tail 917s. The S4 looked like nothing that had ever existed before. That to me is more a spaceship than a familiar carryover.

Btw....Ford is Zakspeed, Jaguar is Group 44/TWR, Dome is Toyota,

and McLaren you say.........? Please show me this Group C McLaren.

- "I think one reason why Group B is remembered more fondly was that it was ended a bit early. While Group C lasted for more than a decade, where Group B was around for only 4 years. Plus by the end, the FIA made it so you had to basically use F1 engines. So the class was spending F1 money without the money that F1 gets."

I've already addressed this earlier but again. Group B existed past 1986. And it was the FIA's attempt to stop the media after the Portugal and Tour de Course tragedies that caused an immediate cease order from Jean Marie Balestre.

Group C also existed in Australia, and wasn't an FIA formula. No Aussie would say any FIA Group C prototype is better than Peter Brock's 1984 Group C Holden Commodore.

Autolegend86 > Forgetful 04/27/2014 at 18:16

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Formula Libre was FIA Group 9 and hasn't been used in Can Am.

Autolegend86 > YSI-what can brown do for you 04/27/2014 at 18:19

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Let's remember you're discussing Can Am I in its original form. At the time, F1 had just switch to Cosworth DFV 3.0 liter V8s. Indy was still the house of the Offenhauser.

The majority of the advanced engine tech came from the 80's. Not the late 60's and early 70's. Saying there isn't variation is like saying today's F1 cars are boring because their engines don't run on water.

Autolegend86 > Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) 04/27/2014 at 18:21

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Group B was made to be a sportcar formula. It became a rally formula after the 1981 championship was full of lackluster entires and was won by a private Group 4 Escort.

Autolegend86 > YSI-what can brown do for you 04/27/2014 at 18:24

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Those crowds were still there after Group B was banned. It wasn't the fault of the cars but the sporting spirit to not be a concern, the failure of the race organizers and the failure of the FIA to set a precedence.

1997 was 11 years after the 1986 RS200 spectator crash but nothing had changed apart from the driver's tolerance.

drsus > YSI-what can brown do for you 04/27/2014 at 18:24

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stop it... comparing these two categories and going even further by saying group C could be more badass than an all out fuck-all rally race car s is a sign of boredom at the home office, obviously

Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) > Autolegend86 04/27/2014 at 18:32

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Same with Group C cars: the old Lancias had quite a few podiums and race wins.

Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) > Autolegend86 04/27/2014 at 18:38

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To quote on one of your points, I think it was Carroll Shelby who said: "horsepower sells cars, torque wins races"

On the sub-2000 Group B cars, I'm happy to say I witnessed quite a few (especially Lada VFTS machines). Written about such cars here: http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/a-few-words-on…

Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) > Autolegend86 04/27/2014 at 18:41

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Oh, and this:

"So in essence, while Group B was an anything goes silhouette formula that had yet to be exposed, Group C was F1 2014 and all its fuel management."

...and WEC LMP1 2014

Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) > Autolegend86 04/27/2014 at 18:47

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And yet another one: Group B went into rallycross, Dakar, and the Audi 90 GTO at IMSA races was virtually an S1 reworked.

Autolegend86 > Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) 04/27/2014 at 18:54

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The LC1 had promise. Shame what they must have felt when they saw the 956 for the first time.

Autolegend86 > Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) 04/27/2014 at 19:03

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Correct again. For Audi and Peugeot, there was also Pikes Peak. The Dakar Peugeot 205/405 would then be turned over to Citroen for their successes there into the mid 90's.

And in the way there was the 90 IMSA car, there was the 200 Trans Am car.

Autolegend86 > Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) 04/27/2014 at 19:06

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I consider 2014 WEC is be the most technically advanced formula in the world. Even with the MB F1 turbo/intercooler setup, the level of car allowed in the WEC is incredible and really paves the way for the future.

I used the F1 quote because the 100 Liters compares well with the FIA's fuel allowance per race distance.

Autolegend86 > Bad Idea Hat 04/27/2014 at 19:15

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1987 WTCC would like a word with you.

Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) > Autolegend86 04/27/2014 at 19:18

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I get upset when people start nagging on "F1 is and should be the pinnacle of motor sports". Well... F1 somewhat closed in on WEC this year, but the technology there is in P1 cars is mind-blowing. 2013 was one of the most ridiculous years for F1 concerning what the rules allowed to do. And there were people still blowing hundreds of millions of dollars at it.

Autolegend86 > Somethingwittyer likes noisy 04/27/2014 at 19:19

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Disagree. The XJR-14, C291, and 905 LM, TS010 were phenomenal cars and the 919, R18 ETron, and TS040 are the 2014 equivalent.

The issue was the development required the same money F1 did so Mercedes Benz said, why don't we just do that? Jaguar was run dry at this point with the horrible XJ220 sales and Peugeot quit after they were racing themselves. Toyota just had no luck and kept adding to their 2nd places at Le Mans record.

Gabor Vajda (@Gabor_V) > Autolegend86 04/27/2014 at 19:19

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The Pikes Peak S1 has to be one of the coolest things ever with four wheels on.

Reserve Parachute > YSI-what can brown do for you 04/27/2014 at 19:28

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I like them both; they were different racing classes that pushed the boundaries and offered some of the most exciting racing ever. It's a shame they were phased out for BS reasons.

Dadu > Forgetful 04/27/2014 at 19:56

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L O L A LOOOOOOLA

Grant Leavitt > YSI-what can brown do for you 04/27/2014 at 19:57

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You'll never see another closed-wheel vehicle like that Silk Cut Jaguar ever again in racing... not even for efficiency regulations...

YSI-what can brown do for you > drsus 04/27/2014 at 20:04

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I am at college. Plus I didn't realize that this was a serious hard hitting post. /sarcasm

Dadu > Forgetful 04/27/2014 at 20:07

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The ones behind need to be bullet proof.

YSI-what can brown do for you > Autolegend86 04/27/2014 at 20:11

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TLDR

YSI-what can brown do for you > Reserve Parachute 04/27/2014 at 20:15

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Well I wouldn't say B was phased out for stupid reasons. They fans were to damn close to the cars!!! But Group C was, they didn't want it to take over the big daddy that is F1.

Harrison Voorhees > YSI-what can brown do for you 04/27/2014 at 20:18

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The TLDR was basically that you don't know what you're talking about from a factual standpoint.

YSI-what can brown do for you > Harrison Voorhees 04/27/2014 at 20:19

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Or I don't care enough to read it.

Autolegend86 > 472CID 04/27/2014 at 20:19

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Which Group A?

Touring car Group A had Div 1, 2, and 3
Rally Group A had A5, A6, A7 and A8

YSI-what can brown do for you > DeuxCentCinqTurboSeize 04/27/2014 at 20:21

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You are one of the few people that realize what an opinion is! And I thank you for that. But I guess it comes from the way I think about racing. I am not one to watch it on TV, but I much rather go to the track and watch it live as cars battle it out. I generally like watching on a track cause the cars become more spread out and it is just a constant stream of action. On TV though, rally is a much more interesting sport.

Harrison Voorhees > YSI-what can brown do for you 04/27/2014 at 20:24

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That's an easy way to play it off I guess. Your approach reminds me of politics. Step 1: pose a theory. Step 2: perform shoddy research. Step 3: draw baseless conclusions. Step 4: ignore criticism.

Congrats.

YSI-what can brown do for you > Harrison Voorhees 04/27/2014 at 20:26

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Brah, you like dicks brah? I think you like dicks.

Autolegend86 > YSI-what can brown do for you 04/27/2014 at 20:26

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This IMSA GTO car only needed to have factory headlights to be legal to compete. It competed against the Audi 90 Quattro in 1989.

That program came from abandoning rallying and was a full development of their Group B program.

In essence, the Downing Mazda was a silhouette car made for similar regs as Group B. A Ford RS200 was also created for this series.

Sounds to me like you like what Group B was.

YSI-what can brown do for you > Autolegend86 04/27/2014 at 20:27

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TLDR

Also, I never said I hated Group B. You seem to have dyslexia. Or dick in your eyes syndrome.

Eric Sean Delaney > YSI-what can brown do for you 04/27/2014 at 20:35

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The only thing I see I that it's hard to compare times between Group B and modern day cars. Have you heard the legend about Henri Toivonen and his S4? Supposedly he tested at Estoril and set a time that would of put him 6th in the 1986 F1 race. Although they believe it was F1 testing he would of placed 6th. But still for a rally car.

But altogether, it's kind of a lose - lose battle because both are equally awesome and cool. I just favor Group B more haha

Mercennarius > Autolegend86 04/27/2014 at 20:45

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Nissan had some great Group C cars...

drsus > YSI-what can brown do for you 04/27/2014 at 20:46

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nah... You're alway going to hit a hot spot when talking moto sports, no matter what the subject, so I abliged ;)

If you're really bored one day.., start something on F1 vs NASCAR.... Anything! And watch the shitshow unfold before your eyes.